Fire With Fire Show full post »
beebee
I have to agree with the negative response to Bernie's docility as a campaigner,  My only rebuttal is to say, on balance, being pissed off at Bernie for not doing what nobody has ever done successfully seems out of place to me.  He is in the company of Gene Debs, Bob Lafollette and Henry Wallace,  And he never said that it was about him.

The next step is for us to come to terms with the reality that no One Person is going to bring down the Empire.  We have to organize.  That is why so much heat is coming down on Bernie -- it ain't policy, it is the mobilization that they fear.  OK, they control the ballot box, for now . . . .


All that said, the posts on this thread are correct --  he SHOULD rip Joe's lungs out in the next debate.  But he won't.


Just want to clear something up because I had intended to first of all respond to your OP FWF, but had something on the stove then came back, got sidetracked and replied to another comment.

I agree with you. What I’ve always liked/admired about Bernie is that he has wanted to run on the issues and not delve into smear tactics accompanied by ominous dark music.

We truly need more pols like that who do the same instead of empty suits and platitudes.

However, Bernie as you’ve noted before, while not needing to go ‘there’ into the mudslinging, has also said some things that would have better simply left unsaid, rather than come to the defense of his opponent.
The classic was “ I don’t want to hear anymore about your damn emails.”
Who can ever forget the shocked but delighted look on Hilary’s face?

I personally don’t think he needs to go into Joe’s dementia, there’s enough of others doing that, and Joe is making it plenty evident all on his own.  Sanders doesn’t have to and shouldn’t do it because if he does it would be at the expense of his own integrity, but he should more forcefully hit Joe on his record over and over again and not back down. And hit him hard.

Drop the ‘my good friend’ especially when Biden’s camp is running ads as to why ‘Bernie Can’t Be Trusted’.

Show the American people why by his record Joe can’t be trusted.
That shouldn’t be too hard to do.
We will not win fighting what we hate but by saving what we love.

Keep Calm and Carry On 👍


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deepestblue
The only OP at the dump about this topic is calling the fact that Joe Biden is senile "a right wing smear," with deflections throughout the thread.  I guess everyone's eyes and ears are lyin'.
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Fire With Fire
Interesting tactical political question -- how to go at Biden?

Remember, he crashed and burned on his own.  As BeeBee points out the gaffes, the hands going where they don't belong and the confusion will continue to echo across our preposterous political culture.  

Nevertheless, I would recommend that Bernie take a very compassionate tone of voice when he addresses the topic of his and Biden's age.  "Joe, the burden is on each of us to hold up the side of Seventy-Somethings.  Trump will attack whoever we nominate with unbounded viciousness.  Here is how I do it -- I keep up a vigorous schedule, I show rather than tell how well I can do the job.  Joe, how are you going to answer Trump's attacks -- as he has already started it on you.  On this issue, I am on your side -- because, as old as you are, I am one year older."

On the real issues, Bernie should remain cheerful but rueful as goes over all the issues that Joe is on the losing side.

He would run me out of his office if I tried to sell that passive aggressive schtick to him.
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aspirant
Again, the ELEPHANT in the room

He can tickle Joe with kindness, go badass against Trump but if he doesn't confront the vote cheating all of it is irrevelent

The good thing is that the vote riggers can be classified as things...DNC, Establishment Dims, State Election officials, Deep State, etc..... which he doesn't have any problem calling them bad guys

This gaze forward and leave the 2020 injustices behind will make him a 2-time Presidential loser
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beebee
This is why there is no need for Bernie to go there himself.
It would only make him look small and perhaps open himself up
to attacks about his own heart condition and age.


We will not win fighting what we hate but by saving what we love.

Keep Calm and Carry On 👍


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Sriracha
Pretty sure Ol' Joementia is will get in the wrong person's face in one of the stand your ground states.
On camera.
Put Joe out pasture.

Who's this "we" you were talking about?
So far the only D offerings I've seen that might be better than Trump are Tulsi and maybe Bernie. Jury still out on both. The Russia Russia Russia train Bernie jumped on is quite a red flag. And, Tulsi's CFR membership and gun grabbing desires are as well.
Pipeline and Railroad across the Berring Strait: Bye bye middle east quagmires. Bye bye 23ft/gal super tankers polluting the world. Add a highway to that. Then we can drive to Asia, Europe and Africa. Road trip heaven!
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aspirant
Confronting VOTER SUPPRESSION would make him look small?
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beebee
aspirant wrote:
Confronting VOTER SUPPRESSION would make him look small?


No, Joe’s dementia...plenty of others to do it.

He should most def confront voter suppression and call out the rigging as he should have in 2016.
That is one of the main reasons along w the Russia-gate hypocrisy that I was unable to jump
on the bandwagon a second time, and indeed maybe what’s also hurting him now. 
We will not win fighting what we hate but by saving what we love.

Keep Calm and Carry On 👍


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davidgmills
Not bashing a political opponent is a redeemable quality.  Sticking to the issues and winning arguments that way is far better than ad hominem attacks on an opponent.  But how you successfully do that in today's world of politics seems almost impossible.
Ye shall know the phony left by the gates they keep.
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deepestblue
He is in the company of Gene Debs, Bob Lafollette and Henry Wallace,  And he never said that it was about him.

Thanks for the Lafollette name; had never heard of him before; looked him up; fascinating.

I'd be curious to know how you see Sanders/Debs/Lafollette/Wallace differing from FDR who won in the arena 4 times.
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Fire With Fire
deepestblue wrote:

Thanks for the Lafollette name; had never heard of him before; looked him up; fascinating.

I'd be curious to know how you see Sanders/Debs/Lafollette/Wallace differing from FDR who won in the arena 4 times.


There are two different distinctions between Franklin Roosevelt and the other guys. 

First, he won the Presidency while bringing a Congress into office that would support major change.  His biggest obstacle was the Supreme Court.  He belongs on the highest tier of Great American political leaders -- in my not well studied but not completely ignorant opinion, the ONLY great President in history. Eugene Debs never came close to having real power, and should not even be considered a politician.  He was more like Martin Luther King.  Fighting Bob La Follette, Henry Wallace and Bernie Sanders were all politicians who stood against the powers the be without ever becoming President.

Second, he was not a radical or a revolutionary or even an ideologue.  We was a conservative pragmatist who understood that totalitarianism was the only way to maintain the same level of privilege for the class into which he was born -- and he did not want to see that happen.  


Quote:
The depression was the only issue of consequence in the presidential campaign of 1932. The American public had to choose between the apparently unsuccessful policies of the incumbent Hoover, who blamed the depression on external events and alleged that Roosevelt would intensify the disaster, and the vaguely defined New Deal program presented by Roosevelt. While Roosevelt avoided specifics, he made clear that his program for economic recovery would make extensive use of the power of the federal government. In a series of addresses carefully prepared by a team of advisers popularly known as the Brain Trust, he promised aid to farmers, public development of electric power, a balanced budget, and government policing of irresponsible private economic power. 


FDR was part of the ruling class, but he was also a superb practical politician and a man of exceptional guts.

I think his worst legacy is the meta-story of being the One Guy to fight the bastards and win.  Actually, my grandfather and millions of other Americans were fighting, literally fighting with fists, boards and other nastier weapons on picket lines and sit-down strikes.  It was not well coordinated and it might not have won in the long run, but we were indeed headed for civil war.  And there is the tale of General Butler and the attempted coup against Roosevelt.

It will take a similar level of contention to bring about the Second New Deal.  We can wish it were not so,  but folks in hell keep wishing for ice water.
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deepestblue
TY that was highly interesting.
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beebee
We will not win fighting what we hate but by saving what we love.

Keep Calm and Carry On 👍


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